Can you go back to the beginning and explain why you wanted to start your podcast?
I had finished my WSET Diploma in 2005 and, while I was running a wine business, my education had stalled. I really like to learn - wine, engineering, swimming. I felt that after having completed such an intensive learning process there was a hole.
I was a very early adopter when it came to listening to podcasts. As soon as the iPod supported podcasts, I was 100% into it. I loved the content you could consume. That first year of listening, there wasn’t a single wine podcast.
How hard was it at the start to get attention and keep going whilst podcasts were still quite niche?
The UK Wine Show podcast is 20 years old this month
Being quite techy helped, as we had to create the technology to publish a podcast. There was no ecosystem like there is now.
For listeners, in the first five years of podcasting, the audience was the audience. People found us on iTunes and, if you were into wine, we were one of a small number of choices available. People would listen, and if they liked it, they would continue to listen. In the last 10 years, there has been a huge explosion in podcasts, so even finding an audience is tough.
In the early days, I was more worried about getting guests. You can imagine trying to convince a sceptical wine expert that this thing called a podcast was actually a thing. It’s funny that some of them have their own podcast shows now.
I really didn’t have much to worry about, though. Most people in the wine world are pretty open and happy to chat. But in the early days, I was talking with the top people in the UK and many had never heard of me or podcasting.
How has the podcast developed and changed over time - what have been the big changes you have made about what works as a podcast?
From a format point of view, things have not really changed. It is still people chatting about a topic. When we started, we were a general magazine-style wine podcast, interviewing people and covering key news stories. This was great, it met my need to learn. Anything I wanted to learn about, I could call up a leader in that field and sit down and chat to them.
Our audience numbers were great, and we were consistently rated in the top 10 food podcasts in the UK on iTunes. Often ahead of Jamie Oliver!
About 10 years ago, we took a good look at the podcast. We realised there was an increasing amount of competition and as a general wine magazine-style podcast we were about to get swamped.
We also realised that we could get so much more out the podcast. It wasn’t just about the podcast itself, it was a realignment in the business, but with podcasting as a key element.
If you want longevity in podcasting, there needs to be a compelling reason to create it.
As any content creator knows, it takes time. So you need a business plan that can leverage the content.
Why did you want to move into wine education?
Chris and Jane Scott have evolved their podcast platform to include WSET courses
In 2016, podcasting was really hotting up. Increasing numbers of celebrity podcasts appeared and money was being made. That drew everybody into podcasting. Being a general wine show was never going to cut it. We were going to get lost in the sea of new shows and so we needed to change.
ThirtyFifty, as a business, had been teaching WSET courses for a while and we were about to launch the world's first online flashcards created by a WSET Approved Programme Provider. Internally, we were massively expanding the content we created to include more digital study materials.
The UK Wine Show was realigned with the education business to support the company, but also to carve out a niche within the wine world.
Explain the different podcasts you do and how they have evolved?
We have three podcasts.
Our weekly UK Wine Show is still a magazine-style podcast, with news, interviews, educational content and chat. But now it is viewed through the lens of a learning wine journey.
Our Level 3 Wine Podcast & Level 4 Wine Podcast are designed for the WSET Level 3 & Level 4 Diploma students. They take listeners through the entire process, from how to select a course provider and prepare for the course, through to tips on tasting technique, key concepts, and exam technique once enrolled.
They also contain content from interviews originally featured on the UK Wine Show that supports the WSET Level 3 or Level 4 syllabus.
How do you feel now the rest of the world has now caught up and podcasts have become so popular?
I love it. I am such an avid podcast listener and feel there is a podcast for everyone and everything.
Why and how do you think yours still stands out?
Jane and Chris Scott recieved the IWC Consumer Educator 2024
It is our educational content. We know we have many listeners and patrons who have completed some form of qualification, whether that be WSET, viticultural training or winemaking degrees. They, like us, know if they don’t use it, they lose it.
Our podcasts keeps things ticking along, meaning listeners stay up to date with the key news, interesting thought leaders and emerging trends. Jane and I are also very down-to-earth and grounded hosts and, of course, a husband and wife team.
What other podcasts do you admire and listen to take ideas from either in wine or not in wine?
I probably listen to about 10-20 podcasts a week. Almost all of them are not about wine. Wine is my world. Podcasts are my opportunity to widen my world.
Four shows I admire:
IT Conversations by Ray Kurzweil: this was the first podcast that blew my mind. Listening to him in 2005 about what to expect when AI passes humans (the singularity) was amazing. Having access to such thought leaders hooked me into podcasts.
This week in Tech (TWiT): another IT podcast (this was what dominated podcasting in the beginning). Leo Laporte was an early and hugely successful podcaster, expanding into a network of podcasts very early on, with such great production values,
Wine For Normal People: I only occasionally listen to this, but meeting Elizabeth Schneider at a conference 10 years ago inspired me to pivot the podcast to align with our business goals.
Abbie Bennington and her breakthrough podcast Vintage Politics that interviews political journalists about their love of wine
Vintage Politics: a new podcast this year, it's a great niche wine-and-politics podcast. Exceptional production values and Abbie Bennington is a fantastic host.
What advice would you give someone looking to start a podcast ?
Podcasts take time to create, so you need to have a compelling reason to do it, whether personal or business-related or, in my case, both.
I would probably advise limiting it to a certain number of episodes in a season. A weekly show like ours takes a lot of commitment. Better to run for, say, 10 episodes, then take a break and think about it.
We used to talk about the long tail with podcasting. With so many listeners that tail is huge. Decide what niche you are you going to occupy and ask whether that niche can work for you. Hitting it big mainstream is tough and now costs a lot of money - you would have better luck winning the lottery.
If you are small, there is a lot of free software available, so try creating the first episodes yourself. You will learn a lot about microphones and recording that will help your sound quality.
What are the biggest mistakes people can make?
Sound quality. Poor acoustics and poor microphone choice can make listening to a show painful.
Is consistency and regularity the key?
It is for us. We have a weekly show, so it sets the cadence for much of our social media work.
But weekly can be too much. For us, our media strategy is built around this cadence. As a new podcaster, seasonal episodes give you time to evaluate the show and take a lot of stress around deadlines away.
Any standout or landmark episodes you have done?
Loads, we all have our favourites. Jane's will be different to mine. I like shows where I get a paradigm shift. They don’t happen very often, but when you talk to a top scientist, viticulturist or winemaker you get an 'aha' moment. Those are the shows I like, but I know our listeners get different things from different episodes. We are all on a journey with different starting points.
I’ve got a show coming out in a month or so where we talk to a top scientist in New Zealand, going to super-geeky levels about new varieties with particular genetic traits. How they do it, the testing and the science. I love it. It is the future of wine.
This week, we released a show with James Ellis of Ellis Wines, who I interviewed 20 years ago. It was great looking back at his previous answers and it gave us such a strong platform to discuss the changes in the last two decades. It was tough having your forecasts from 20 years ago checked back on, but James was brilliant and surprisingly accurate.
Being able to do shows like that is great. Revisiting an issue again and again five, 10, 20 years later is such a wonderful thing.
How do you monetise your podcast and how has that financial model changed over the years?
Until 10 years ago we did not monetise it. Since then, we have really focused on getting value from the show.
We have a strong and active Patreon community. Members make monthly donations and, in return, get free access to some of our ThirtyFifty study materials and quizzes plus other membership perks.
We don’t run advertising in the show, although we do take sponsorship sometimes. The value for us lies in spreading the ThirtyFifty brand. We sell online study materials all over the world and it is no coincidence that the countries we sell the most to are also where are biggest audiences are located.
Having a freemium model where the show is free to listen to, but we have relevant study materials to sell, is where the most value comes from.
What plans do you have still to develop the podcast?
We've recently been running a Lambrusco segment, tasting Lambrusco and talking about the wine. I’ve always avoiding tasting on the show, but the tasting is pretty light and we use it to explore a variety or region. We will probably continue this, and we are open to sponsorship, especially if the region or wines are quirky and interesting to our audience.
We are on a drive to integrate AI tools into all aspects of the business, and the podcast is no exception. We have been modifying our production process to create more digital assets at a higher quality.
We also continue to reach new audiences. We are in the process of loading all our podcasts into YouTube at the moment. Yes, a bit late, but we have always been audio-centric.
Any guests you are still trying to get on?
Not really. I don’t think we've ever had a guest refuse. Then, it is just a matter of timing to make it happen.
What would be your dream guests for a podcast - either from wine or outside wine?
Oz Clarke - Chris Scott's favourite guest over 20 years of The UK Wine Show
The smoothest guest I have ever had on has to be the one and only Oz Clarke. He is an absolute delight to interview or, more likely, he interviews you. He is so smooth. I think I might reach out to him again...
Anything else to say?
Podcasting is such a great way to learn. Running, walking, vacuuming, listening to a podcast turns chores into moments of discovery.
As a podcast listener for over 21 years, I truly believe podcasts give you complete control of the content you consume. It isn’t driven by an algorithm. It is your choice, and what you listen to can change you.
Listening to the podcasts you choose gives you control over how the media shapes who you are. They are a brilliant thing!
